Note: The following long post has been arranged in a manner similar to a live conversation. Because the replies to each question are separated in time, I have color-coded the timelines in this way:
dark red: DoubtDoubts question [January 27th, 2022, morning]; JW Advisor first reply [January 27, 2022, afternoon]
dark green: DoubtDoubts first reply [January 27, 2022, night]; JW Advisor second reply [February 1, 2022, afternoon]
blue: DoubtDoubts second reply [February 27, 2022, morning]; JW Advisor third reply [March 7, 2022, evening]
orange: DoubtDoubts third reply [March 24, 2020, evening]
DoubtDoubts wrote:
I am not comfortable talking to an elder about this, so I thought asking for help on here might be worth a shot, I am kind of desperate. I am an unbaptized publisher.
I have been having doubts lately, and it feels like when I try to escape it and fight it it gets worse, my brain won’t let me forget.
I would say the major doubt is that it seems that everyone on the internet that is not a Jehovah’s Witness call us a cult, and not just apostates either. It was starting to make me wonder if everyone says I am wrong, then what if I am the one that’s wrong.
Some other doubts are that I heard is that Yahweh is much more accurate than Jehovah. And the governing body lead is despite being human, and have made mistakes.
I guess my main question is how do I overcome these doubts especially because I keep getting reminded of it such as YouTube titles and it feels like entertainment lately has a story on cults etc. I try to read sites like your other site opposers dysmithed and I join a Positive JW forum. And it works for a while but then I would get a reminder of my doubts again or wake up and my brain won’t leave me alone.
I do feel like we are the most accurate religion and our teachings make sense, and I really do want to believe. But I just can’t keep this poison out of my head, and I need HELP.
JW Advisor: The key to overcoming obsessive concerns is decisive certainty, ignoring anything that contradicts that certainty. In a sense, becoming obsessed with the feeling of certainty instead of the feeling of doubt. The talk of certainty below is meant to goad and encourage you in that direction. (Though there is nothing wrong with getting professional help to overcome obsessive behaviors, as long as the professional respects your beliefs.) Take my following replies as a kind discipline in the spirit of love. (Pr 1:23) There is no judgment in goading.
I put everything in context of the original questions to reduce the need to reference other messages. So it will be my question, your answer and then any followup statements or questions from me. My writing partner gave his assent to the second half, but I added the things about certainty and #9 afterward for which I have not gotten a reply back. I'm sending them to you now so as not to keep you waiting. (I understand how obsessive tendencies can make you anxious.)
THE QUESTIONS
1. Do you truly and firmly believe Jehovah God is real and created all things?
DoubtDoubts wrote: #1, Yes I do.
JW Advisor: #1 FOLLOWUP: Then have faith that Jehovah wants to know you and will show you the truth. Faith is certainty, not that a certain thing will occur, but certainty that Jehovah will guide you and help you because he is real and cares about you personally. Be certain that he is always with you. Do you know what certainty feels like? Apply that feeling to Jehovah. Get in the habit of thinking about your reason for certainty and be confident. If doubt still creeps in, ask Jehovah for more faith, certain that he will grant it to you. (Mark 9:23, 24; James 1:5) The more you do this, the more accustomed to certainty you will become as long as you keep relying on Jehovah.
But he that doubts "should not expect to receive anything from Jehovah; he is an indecisive man, unsteady in all his ways." (James 1:6-8) This means while Jehovah may choose to answer a doubter's prayer to strengthen his faith, he is under no obligation to. [But he has obligated himself to hear all prayers of faith and to answer all prayers that are asked in accord with his will for us or his divine plan.—1Jo 5:14; Jas 5:14.]
Doubts are based on a lack of knowledge, not certainty, because where there is certainty, there cannot be doubts. When doubt arises, remember that it is a lack of knowledge. So seek certainty through knowledge of the facts and knowledge of God's ways. (Pr 1:7) A person with faith is certain that God will look after them and help them. (2Sa 22:3, 4) Jehovah leads his people to him, not away from him. So have faith he will lead you with knowledge, not doubts.
Search for and follow the facts, not what liars want you to believe. Be certain that they are liars. (How many consecutive lies does it take for you to be certain that a person is a liar?) You know they are liars, so treat them as such and avoid them. Liars can never give you undeniable facts, only uncertainty and unanswered questions designed to destablize people. Go towards certainty and be certain and you will not fail. You can still be wrong from time to time, but at least you won't be constantly unsteady.
These things are in line with Exposure and Response Prevention therapy for OCD. Though in this matter, you are bombarded frequently. There is no need to seek it out. In fact, seeking it out is part of the obsession and is unwise. (Pr 9:13-18; 22:3) So to counter it, you need to learn the proper response, which is certainty.
JW Advisor: 2. Which verse of Scripture says that we must pronounce God's name, or any name, exactly as the Jews pronounced it?
DoubtDoubts: #2, At first I was thinking of Isaiah 43:10, but then technically it doesn’t say you have [to] say the exact name. And I know that Jesus’s Hebrew name is Yeshua I think but everyone just calls him Jesus.
JW Advisor: #2 FOLLOWUP: You will never find a scripture that says pronunciation matters. Jephthah's men only used language to distinguish one group of Ephraimites from another. The account never said they were wrong for their pronunciation. (Judges 12:4-6)
This is where certainty comes in. You need to convince yourself once and for all that pronunciation does not matter, and be certain in your conviction. Why? Because Jehovah God himself would have made it a big deal if the precise pronunciation of his name were important. If it's not in the Scriptures, then it has not come up into God's mind, and you need to be certain of that fact.—2Ti 3:16, 17.
DoubtDoubts: #2 You have a good point that if it truly mattered that Jehovah would include the vowels and precise annunciation but he didn’t. Also I watched a couple of videos where Yehovah and the English Jehovah are accurate and I am not so hung up now.
JW Advisor: 3. What is the name of our savior?
DoubtDoubts: #3, Jesus Christ, Jehovah’s son, he died for us so we have a hope of everlasting life.
JW Advisor: #3 FOLLOWUP: So, then, are you going to put faith (have certainty) in the son of God? or in the sons of men? Because those who teach the truth about him are the ones being led to salvation. Those trying to undermine faith in that truth are trying to lead you away from Christ. (1Jo 4:6) So decide today who you will follow. Christ? or betrayers of Christ?
DoubtDoubts: #3 I believe in Jesus, so I will follow him. And this [week's] Watchtower was helpful in that the broad road leads to destruction, and the narrow road leads to life; and by trying to live like Jesus we are taking the cramped narrow road.
JW Advisor: 4. Those who call us a cult, do any of them have the true religion?
DoubtDoubts: #4, I don’t know I don’t think so, but there are SO Many different Christian Denominations and everyone thinks they're right.
JW Advisor: #4 FOLLOWUP: So why are you vascillating if you know of nothing better? Even false religions have sense enough to be confident.
One more question regarding #4: What religion would not qualify as a cult under anyone's estimation and why?
DoubtDoubts: #4 I heard/learned that most smaller religions are typecast as Cults, and the bigger religions like Catholicism is not considered a cult even though they use Pagan symbols, and odd practices especially around the pope/Vatican. (I learned from a tour that the way they celebrated mother Mary, looked very similar to the worship of a Babylonian god. As for Vacillating, I have always been indecisive, and I suppose it is easier that way than to pick a side. I guess it is my imperfection or sinful nature.
JW Advisor: Sin makes us weak and/or rebellious. Indecisiveness is a bad mindset to get caught up in out of weakness. The antidote is certainty. Practice it in the little things so that you will be prepared in the big things; get accustomed to it. Be uncertain only if you have good reason to be uncertain, such as a lack of information. Once you have overcome uncertainty on a particular issue, if you never let it come up again, you will not be burdened by it anymore.
To do this, you will have to make a very conscious decision not to ever let it bother you again. Burn that bridge and never look back. You might even make a note of it somewhere where you keep your private thoughts, so that you can review it. I do this every time I solve an issue, and I keep it in a file in Google Drive. I write down what I learned and never look back. Upon escaping the city, Lot was decisive, but his wife was not. You can ask yourself if you will be practiced in decisiveness on the day of judgment?
JW Advisor: The following questions are based on cult identifiers. If the answer to any question is "yes", then please explain:
5. Do Jehovah's Witnesses force people to become Jehovah's Witnesses, such as through reprogramming, "deprogramming" or threat of violence?
DoubtDoubts: #5, No.
JW Advisor: 6. Do Jehovah's Witnesses threaten people (for whatever reason)?
DoubtDoubts: #6, no.
JW Advisor: 7. Do Jehovah's Witnesses mislead people about their teachings?
DoubtDoubts: #7, no.
JW Advisor: 8. Do Jehovah's Witnesses promise one thing, but deliver another (bait and switch)?
DoubtDoubts: #8, no.
JW Advisor: 9. Do Jehovah's Witnesses intimidate people into joining or staying?
DoubtDoubts: #9, Disfellowship; counsel by elders.
JW Advisor: #9 FOLLOWUP: What is the definition of intimidation? How specifically are these things intimidation? When someone counsels you, do you feel intimidated to do something against your will? or do you feel disciplined? How does disfellowshipping serve to keep people in the truth if we are removing them? How does counsel by the elders intimidate people into staying?
I was counseled multiple times during my brief rocky marriage and not once did I feel intimidated into staying. In fact, discipline has the tendency to make someone like me want to leave because I find counsel to be humiliating and embarrassing due to my social anxiety and my avoidant personality. It even caused me to leave on one occasion. I eventually came back, not because of counsel, but in spite of it. The only thing fear of counsel does for me is fear sinning badly enough that I should be counseled. If my intent were to apostatize, I would just leave. But then I have no attachments.
So what of those that do have attachments, like yourself? Have you ever met one of Jehovah's Witnesses who would rather that apostates choose to stay than leave? I have been battling apostate propaganda since 1997. In this time I have been approached by many apostates, and only one of them were afraid to leave the truth because of family. The rest who were infecting their congregations did so with the clearly stated motive to either "spy" on the organization or to turn as many away from the organization as they could before being found out. The one who feared losing contact with their family turned out to have a financial stake in not leaving their family behind.
But I have seen people leave because of their attachment to a disfellowshipped or disassociated family member. But it never happens all at once. It happens because they fail to cut [spiritual] ties with them and then they get infected by the doubts (lack of certainty) that the apostate has worn them down with, not with facts. In fact, apostates depend solely upon instilling doubt by means of unanswered questions and unproved assertions because they know that they cannot provide answers or factual proof in context.
Not even apostates believe their own lies as one former apostate explained to me after his return because of my identifying that very matter about apostates. My words in a public forum identifying that apostates make up lies because they cannot find evidence against us helped him realize that he was tired of regurgitating and inventing lies.
DoubtDoubts: #9 I guess I thought of disfellowshipping as intimidation, or if you do something wrong you will be shunned. Although I know that usually takes a few talks with the elders, and they must be unrepentant. Which I am usually repentant anyways so I shouldn’t really worry about it. And your experience was interesting. I guess I didn’t think that apostates would just leave, I thought it was mostly because they were disfellowshipped and got shunned from their family or they have a negative experience and they turn. That is interesting that you said that apostates don’t believe in their own lies, sometimes they sound so sincere. But I think I would agree that discipline is different than intimidation, especially with the lack of discipline today it is kind of starting to show in the new generation of kids (generation Z)
JW Advisor: To clarify an earlier statement, when I left, I did not apostatize, I simply became inactive. I was exhausted because my two cases went on for a total of six months (3 months each) due to one particular person's consistent mismanaging both of my cases with misplacing files, failing to send files, failing to make phone calls, and failing to follow up in a timely manner. In fact, the first of the two was because the same person failed to make phone calls and send files 3 years earlier about my divorce.
There is certainly no one way people become apostate. Many apostates do try to convince themselves of the lies, but when someone debunks the lie, they just move on to another and another. They only care about justifying their course. They don't want to take responsibility for their choice. Some do become apostate after disfellowshipping, but I have found that they did so because they could not get a hold of themselves because they relied on their own efforts and not upon Jehovah. Some of those have distorted or incorrect understandings of God's judgment and insufficient faith in salvation through Jesus Christ. They may come to think of God's gift of salvation as conditional upon some personal bias of theirs (such as not forgiving child molesters. It is certainly hard to do, but a molester's judgment will come from Jehovah. Authority to withhold forgiveness belongs to Jehovah and Jesus alone.)
In fact, some think that because the organization is run by flawed people that it cannot be God's organization, but this goes back to 1 Samuel 4, when Israel treated the ark like a magical totem. The power is not in a gold-lined ark of acacia wood, which could be chipped and broken and subject to termites and dry rot, but in God who protects it and grants his people power based upon how they treat it according to his word.
In the end, it always comes down to their seeking justification by hanging onto falsehoods because they don't want to have to explain their own sins or distorted thinking to anyone. My advice to anyone who is intent on leaving is to be honest with themselves about their true motivations and thinking and just leave, don't look back, and find a new support system away from Jehovah's Witnesses. They don't have to explain themself to anyone or justify it. They should own their choice or return. Because if they can't move on then they know their choice was wrong. Someone who knows they have made the right choice never has to look back, nor do they need to convince someone else that their own choice was right.
Now these things are not speculation. We do not need to speculate nor to empathize to come to these conclusions. These are the things apostates demonstrate by their attitudes and behaviors, as well as admit to. It is common prideful human behavior promoted by Satan.
As to discipline, entitlement has indeed been the hallmark of this generation.
JW Advisor: 10. Do Jehovah's Witnesses take active measures to harass or ruin the lives of former members?
DoubtDoubts: #10, no.
JW Advisor: 11. Do Jehovah's Witnesses make it easy to sexually abuse children?
DoubtDoubts: #11, I don’t really know, but it seems so.
JW Advisor: #11 FOLLOWUP: If someone accused you of murder and you go before a court of law and a witness were asked under oath if you murdered someone, would it be fair if you were convicted on the words: "It seems so"? I want you to actually think about this without me implying any answer: Apart from the accusations, what actual evidence is there that the organization of Jehovah's Witnesses make it easy to sexually abuse children? List anything you come up with (without looking up material from our opposers, stick to what you know from personal experience).
DoubtDoubts: #11 I actually messed up on my answer, when I said “it seems so” I misread the question and what I meant to say is that it is not easy to abuse kids [among Jehovah's Witnesses]. And I agree you need evidence to convict someone, not just “I think he did it”. Honestly the only time I ever hear about this is from apostates. When you hear it you are shocked because child abuse is a disgusting crime, and if we do that then it is so disappointing; but I tried to reason that Jehovah knows everything and that he will punish those in time. It seems like apostates like to use our emotions against us, which kind of happened to me at first. I know they always mention the 2 person rule, but other than that I don’t know much evidence.
JW Advisor: You hit the nail on the head. They want to manipulate emotions because they know their facts are insufficient. If they had sufficient facts to support their claims, they would not need to resort to trickery and deception. They would focus on just that one fact rather than scrounging through every little word in our publications that could be wrongly interpreted out of context.
An example of their acknowledgment of their insufficient facts is to grossly overstate the number of molesters and never checking their facts. They turn "5,000 pages of court documents" about 2 cases into 5,000 molesters. They turn 10,000 [supposed] accusations [in the history of the organization] worldwide into 10,000 molesters in Australia. They make 2 cases in one congregation 30 years apart into 2 molesters in every congregation. They turned a case about a single pedophile elder abusing a friend's child at their home into "institutionalized molestation" even though it was not an official visit, as that requires two elders. So, yeah, their lack of interest in facts is their weakness.
JW Advisor: 12. Do Jehovah's Witnesses persecute any other religion?
DoubtDoubts: #12, they talk about Christendom a lot especially Catholics as being false, but they do not do anything else to persecute them.
JW Advisor: #12 FOLLOWUP: How does speaking the truth about someone persecute them? If someone goes to jail for being an unrepentant thief caught red-handed, are you persecuting them for identifying them as such to others, especially if you are the victim?
DoubtDoubts: #12 You are right that talking about facts isn’t persecution. I guess sometimes it felt like it comes off as superior, I guess, like we JW’s are right and everything else is wrong. But I mean every religion thinks they are right, and I don’t know if other religions talk about us or other religions as being false (I don’t know, I don’t think I attended other churches)
JW Advisor: Jehovah's Witnesses are actually the number one religion on their tongues. They have whole talks about us from their platforms. If you have done the preaching for any length of time, you have no doubt come across church-goers telling us what we believe, whether right or wrong. Some threaten us. This is because of what they have been told about us from their pulpits. The Adventists even specially train some of their members to act interested and keep us talking in circles at their doors so as not to continue in our ministry. I was asked to help with just such an Adventist and got caught up in the round-about. When I realized that the person was purposefully leading me in circles, I said it was time to go. I didn't realize these people were actually trained in this until a few years later, when I came across their training document online.
Would we be demonstrating faith if we were not sure we have the correct salvation message? We don't pretend to be right about everything. We acknowledge our need for adjustments, which is what makes us stand out. But the salvation message through Jesus Christ has never changed. Only the two groups with different resurrections was ever clarified, but the truth about Jehovah, his relationship to Jesus and the need for salvation from sin and death through Jesus has not changed since the founding of the Bible Students.
JW Advisor: 13. Do Jehovah's Witnesses control what you do, see, say or are exposed to under threat of penalty?
DoubtDoubts: #13, no.
JW Advisor: 14. Have Jehovah's Witnesses ever asked you to do anything that violated your conscience?
DoubtDoubts: #14, no they have not asked me anything like that. But sometimes it feels like they pressure me by asking a lot sometimes to become an Unbaptized Publisher/ Babtized. I know they mean well but sometimes it feels like pressure and makes me a little uncomfortable sometimes. I tell them that I am working on it, and I will be baptized when it’s in my heart; not just do it because I have to.
JW Advisor: #14 FOLLOWUP: It is good that you feel that way. But what is violating your conscience? That someone should be baptized? Or that you do not feel ready because of your own state of mind? Thus, can Jehovah's Witnesses truly be blamed for the condition of your conscience? It is unfortunate that some can lack discretion in promoting baptism, but has anyone officially instructed them to do so on behalf of the organization?
DoubtDoubts: #14 I sometimes don’t feel I am ready because of my state of mind. I feel like I am never good enough, and always disappointing Jehovah. But the brothers do mean well and they all think I am ready for baptism. It is mostly me holding myself back, I am always self-Critical (and I sort of get this Imposter syndrome). But I know it is an issue I have, and I am trying to work at it (I am a perfectionist. I put a very high stand on myself, and feel that I have to be a saint to be Baptized ; even though everyone tells me that’s not true). I want to make up my own mind so when people tell me what to do it makes me want to resist I suppose, and my mom who is not a publisher has the same personality. Most of the elders are gentle, but some can kind of feel a little pushy, but it is not their fault that I am so self-conscious.
JW Advisor: You are not alone. This was exactly how I felt before baptism until a spiritual attack convinced me that it was time to make my choice after a year and a half of study. (Though I was not as pressured to baptize as you have been.) A couple of my students also felt this way and I think it caused them ultimately not to commit. Really, if we needed to be perfect before baptism, no one could be baptized. Of course, in the first century, it was not backed up with paperwork that follows you for the rest of your life.
Many of our brothers and sisters felt that way at baptism, and many Bible students right now feel that way. It is very common. But know that your struggles are lighter than you realize. (1Co 10:13) Have you had immoral sexual relations with another person, committed idolatry, or drank blood? Your previous statements seem to indicate otherwise. Therefore you need only put faith in Jesus that your sins are forgiven, and trust in Jehovah's mercy. Personal sins have no condemnation in the Bible.
While Jesus said, "everyone who keeps on looking at a woman so as to have a passion for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart," (Mt 5:28) he did not mean merely a lingering glance, though that certainly can lead to feelings. He was speaking of the motivation to chase after a married woman (adultery) for sexual intercourse based on letting such furtive glances continue ("keeps on") with a married woman to get out of hand. In the situation of an unmarried person, he or she need only find another single person of the opposite sex to marry in the Lord. (The word translated "woman" in the Greek, also means "married woman" or "wife"). Of course the unmarried man is going to look with desire at the unmarried woman he is courting, so that is not a sin, but can lead to such if unchecked.—2Co 6:14.
If difficulties with personal abuse are a concern, this should also not deter you. That is between you and Jehovah. There is no Scripture that condemns it and elders are no longer allowed to ask about it. (The organization no longer pushes Ge 38:9 because it was not about spilling semen, or else we would have to condemn condoms. The fact is, Onan did have sexual relations with the woman and the account is about Onan willfully disobeying Jehovah's will that he spoke to his grandfather Jacob at Ge 28:14.)
Just steer clear of entertainment with pornographic scenes and try not to visualize and you will do well. Jehovah created us as sexual creatures and knows our struggles. He has given us some amount of leeway by not addressing it in Scripture. We are simply counseled about self-control and inappropriate times to resolve sexual feelings. (compare 1Co 7:5, 36-38) Just do your best to work through sexual feelings. Idleness, and letting the mind wander on sexual things, is the enemy of self-control. But everyone has to deal with such things, even after baptism. The best way to spend downtime is to work on a personal project or build relationships with believing friends and family.
JW Advisor: 15. Do Jehovah's Witnesses practice anything that is a danger to the public?
DoubtDoubts: #15, no.
JW Advisor: 16. Are you required to live in a commune?
DoubtDoubts: #16, no.
JW Advisor: 17. Are you constantly watched for "abberant" behavior by "officers" among Jehovah's Witnesses?
DoubtDoubts: #17, no.
JW Advisor: 18. Is there a single man living on earth today who dictates all our teachings?
DoubtDoubts: #18, Sorry I am not really sure what the question is asking.
JW Advisor: #18 FOLLOWUP: One of the accusations about cults is a centralized pyramidal organizational structure with one man living on earth, a guru, pope or reverend, etc, known to all the devout, dictating doctrine from day to day. Do Jehovah's Witnesses have such a structure? This is just a common identifier. Christ was of this sort while on earth, but he had public miracles, fulfillment of prophecy and numerous witnesses of his resurrection, to back up his claims.
DoubtDoubts: #18 I guess the Governing Body, they tell us new light, and they bring out new things for the annual meeting. I know apostates say we act as a pyramid, but I haven’t wanted to look into it.
JW Advisor: Though the term "new light" has slipped into a few articles in the past, the organization prefers the term "increased light" or something to that effect, because spiritual light is not "new". The Scripture only says that it gets brighter, and indeed it does. (2Pe 1:19) It is just something opposers use to rile us. Nearly all organizations, religious or otherwise, have a pyramidal structure. It does not at all define a cult. It is a feature of organization. Is God's kingdom a cult because Christ is at the top of a pyramidal organizational structure? Is a government of any kind a cult just because it is a government with a head? Is a company a cult because they are an organization with a head? Just because they can be a cult, it doesn't automatically make them one.
[There always needs to be a person or group deciding core issues. If not, there is only chaos with everyone going every which way and divisiveness results. The smaller the group making those decisions, the more focussed they can be and make adjustments more easily. The larger the group the more stagnant and indecisive the group will be, and any decisions they make are more likely to be controlled by worldly interests, instead of the interests of the group. This is the paradox of social dynamics.]
JW Advisor: 19. Do the elders try to stop you from thinking?
DoubtDoubts: #19, no.
JW Advisor: 20. Do any of Jehovah's Witnesses try to deprive you of sleep, food, water, light or freedom?
DoubtDoubts: #20, no.
JW Advisor: More non-cult-related questions:
21. Who is responsible for making decisions in your life?
DoubtDoubts: #21 myself. My parents and elders encourage me. And I try to live by Bible principles as much as I can, sometimes I struggle especially with entertainment because I grew up in the world. But I still choose to try my best.
JW Advisor: #21 FOLLOW UP: That is quite commendable. Keep making up your own mind. This means not letting people plant doubts in your mind. By letting people cause you to doubt even after you already have the facts, you are letting them control you. Keep choosing certainty. At 1 Thessalonians 5:22, besides saying, "make sure of all things," he also says, "hold on to what is fine." By letting people cause you to doubt what you already know, you are letting go of "what is fine." So stop letting go and start holding onto what you know, not allowing anyone to take it away from you.—Mr 4:25.
DoubtDoubts: #21 I try not to let others plant doubts, but I guess after a while it gets harder to ignore.
JW Advisor: That is exactly what apostates exploit. Very few go apostate because they believed the lies about us outright. They do so because the spirit of apostates rub off on them through frequent exposure to apostate material. The attitude of questioning without seeking, or even caring about the facts is what apostates seek to train people in. The more you expose yourself to it, the more accustomed you become to the negative attitudes and insufficiently answered questions of our apostates. In time it becomes comfortable and the person finds themselves emulating the attitude.
JW Advisor: 22. Should you surrender your thinking to others, whether on TV, the internet or in your real life?
DoubtDoubts: #22 well no and yes. No because you should always have your own thoughts and feelings. But yes because for example I learned the truth while I was in high school (like 11 or 12 years ago) from my Dad. At the time I wasn’t really that interested but I didn’t want to disappoint him. But at the same time if I wanted to skip a meeting or Watchtower he would yell and guilt trip me. I also felt that I didn’t have much of a choice because if I chose not to be a Witness that Jehovah might kill me (or die at Armageddon). Years later I came to love Jehovah with my own heart especially with viewing creation and learning Psychology, and my Dad has relaxed a bit. I eventually became an unbaptized publisher 3 or 4 years ago, and was happy for a bit. But another thing is I am somewhat of a scientist so sometimes I struggle with evolution, especially the 6,000 years when there are fossils and caveman carbon dating stating that humans have been around a lot longer; and humans living for hundreds of years before mosses [Sic?]. But the other witnesses don’t believe in evolution so I would hide my evolution struggle and go along with the crowd and say that evolution is stupid.
JW Advisor: #22 FOLLOWUP: Obviously, your father is not the organization. Jehovah encourages us to think for ourselves and never surrender our thinking to others. Solomon surrendered his thinking to his foreign wives and look where that got him. (1Ki 11:4-7) If you feel like you are letting someone else dictate something for you without your conscious consent, then step up and throw off their mental shackles. We have freedom of mind through Jesus Christ, through whom we have truth. (Noh 14:6) God has the right to dictate right and wrong and we must make a conscious choice about whether we will obey him completely or not. (De 30:19, 20; 1Ki 18:21) We can also ask Jehovah to correct our thinking if it goes wayward. (Psalm 17:5) But we should not relinquish control of our thoughts to any man.
I used to have the same struggles with evolution that you are having, even after baptism. Here is how to get past it: face it head on and try to both prove it and disprove it. Can you prove evolution? I want you to truly try to prove evolution. For each proof, I want you to falsify the evidence, as any good scientist should. That is, identify what would prove the evidence and what would invalidate the evidence, write it all down. Learn to ask questions and seek answers.
Challenge and test the evidence as to whether it actually holds up as proof. (Compare 1 John 4:1) Steadfastly pursue their claims to their logical conclusions. This also means testing the methods of declaring evidence. For example, carbon dating has weaknesses. Find out how carbon dating, and other forms of chemical and radiological dating is done and what makes it "accurate" and what renders it inaccurate. What date range is its accuracy, if it is? How do they know it's accurate? Is their claim to accuracy justified? With genetics, read papers on evolution and learn to understand it. Look up terms. Then falsify it by poking holes in it. If a claim is true, then it will not fall apart when prodded.
You do not need to do all this right now. It takes time. Whenever you think you have found proof of evolution that you cannot falsify, then feel free to bring it to us. I will gladly take the time to review the material and see if I can find what you could not. (It helps to have a second pair of eyes. Also, I specialize in the subject.) Only actual source material should be used, not someone else's interpretive research. Never let someone else dictate their lopsided interpretation to you as fact. Interpretations are not facts. They're conjecture. God's word is our guide to interpretation.
DoubtDoubts: #22 You're right. My Dad is not the organization, but a lot of my experience with it was through him. I always felt a guilt trip if I did anything he didn’t like, if I didn’t go to every meeting he would be mad; it made the meetings feel strict, I suppose, for a while anyway (but like I said, he respects me a lot more). But it was my choice to stay and continue to be a publisher; he didn’t make me, I guess now I am in a phase where I want to keep testing instead of just going along with it. As for evolution I haven’t started yet, and I am not really sure where I should start. Honestly it sounds a little anxiety inducing as if what if it just plants more seeds of doubt, but being able to get a second opinion sounds reassuring.
JW Advisor: Just take it as it comes to you, one thing at a time. Whatever question arises is the right place to start. It is indeed intimidating and daunting at first, and indeed a lot of work, but it also requires a lot of faith. If you go in certain that Jehovah will be vindicated, then you will be undaunted and you will find the evidence. But if you do it half-heartedly, you may find yourself easily swayed and bowled over by the opinions of the majority (the broad road). Being Jehovah's friend means that we trust him unconditionally (meaning, without caveats, which in turn means that we know him and how he operates, convinced that nothing is too difficult for him).
JW Advisor: 23. Why do you look for programs and reading material that criticises you or your religion? (Does it make you happy?)
DoubtDoubts: #23: I don’t generally go out of my way to look for apostate material, most of the time of just stumble across it and curiosity gets the better of me. A lot of times it’s out of anger seeing obvious lies and I want to see someone defending our faith and prove them wrong. Also I foolishly reason that my faith is strong enough to withstand it. And other times because my spirituality is growing so look for more Christian content. Years ago I watched most of a video from one of my favorite YouTubers and watched it out of curiosity. It was about him telling that he was a former witness, and he had a bad experience with the elders (they would counsel him on many little things, including wearing a Michael Jackson T Shirt). He seemed genuine and didn’t seem to lie about anything. I stopped watching him but I haven’t been the same since. I was starting to forget it and get over it then I saw something on a Christian message board a couple of months ago (Yahweh is more accurate, then I saw something on child abuse) It just kind of reopened old wounds and the doubts tripled, and I became miserable and depressed again.
JW Advisor: #23 FOLLOWUP: At least you understand the negative impact that untested claims can have. When you can't turn it off, then do a deep dive, down the rabbit hole, straight to the source material in context. Sometimes the best way out is through. Because, if you can't get past the claim, then you have to falsify it by both proving and disproving it or else the unanswered questions will cripple you like a cramped leg and then drown you.
DoubtDoubts: #23 interesting advice that sometimes it is good to go through the rabbit hole, I think my problem is if I don’t agree with something and it causes doubts. I try to deny it or bury it but it comes back; and it causes a sort of cognitive dissonance. But when I went to a JW forum and saw their side of the child abuse scandal it almost instantly alleviated most of my doubts. It was when I was trying to ignore it that it caused me distress.
JW Advisor: Indeed, a person has to decide what they are going to believe. In so doing, they have two choices: 1) Follow the rabbit, or 2) choose arbitrarily. If they choose arbitrarily, they are doing so without certainty, but Jehovah does not punish such as long as they stick to their choice to serve him in faith. But they should be aware that it will always be a weakness that could come back to bite them in a time of low spiritual strength. That you are willing to make the effort is a good thing.
JW Advisor: 24. What would your life be like if you went back to the world?
DoubtDoubts: #24, Honestly probably wouldn’t be that different, I had similar high morals before becoming a witness. The most that would change would be less picky about my video games/ movies, I would probably get worried about getting college. Maybe I would be shy again since the brothers and sisters really helped me a lot from my Social Anxiety.
JW Advisor: #24 FOLLOWUP: Do you think you might get politically involved? (Perhaps in political strife?) Might you get involved with a sexual relationship outside of marriage and all the struggles, uncertainty and potential pitfalls? Do you think you would be able to find a person who shares your beliefs and values? Would she hold firmly with you through thick and thin or bail when things get a little rough, or worse, when things get "boring"? Would you grow into a pillar of strength and wise decisions and counsel that many of our elders demonstrate? (Not all, granted, there are elders with some serious flaws. We're all only human after all.) Would you learn to apply the fruitages of the spirit without Christian unity?
DoubtDoubts: #24 I don’t know if I would be a radically different person, I have more or less been the same even before I learned the truth. I always had high moral standards, I was kind of obsessed with morals and laws (could be an Autism/OCD related, but I don’t know). I am 32 and I do feel lonely that I never found anyone yet, so maybe I would try to hook up with someone; I think I would wait for marriage before sex but who really knows. But no I don’t think that she would have the same values as me, but I would still try to be the best husband I can be. As for politics I was never interested in politics but I was always a humanitarian so I might have joined peaceful protests like the Black Lives Matter/George Floyd movement, or maybe even an advocate for gay rights.
JW Advisor: Taking a look at the consequences of not choosing Jehovah's way and comparing it to the largely peaceful life we now have serving Jehovah according to his prescribed way through Jesus can help strengthen faith because, clearly, Jehovah's way works.
JW Advisor: Regarding blaspheming the holy spirit (unforgivable sin), you can only do so by willfully lying or acting against the holy spirit. Mistakes towards the holy spirit, even sins that you knew were wrong, but did them anyway due to lack of self-conttrol, are forgiveable. So even many apostates can be foriven if they return, but others will never be forgiven. For instance, before I was baptized, I met one who knew this was the truth and chose to oppose us anyway. He will never be forgiven. Ironically, he was the most honest apostate I ever had the displeasure of talking to. I used to talk to them all the time, battling over their lies, even after baptism, before I learned that I could be disfellowshipped for it. Something I had glossed over in the Organized book and the Bible. In obeying that counsel, I am no longer burdened by my interactions with apostates or apostate material and my difficulties in the faith subsided.
DoubtDoubts: Yeah the unforgivable sin had ensnared me for so long, I was struggling with it for over a decade and I wished that I told someone sooner. I really hated myself and didn’t have much hope that God loved me. I was mostly going through the motions, but as I got better, I knew what it was and that those were not my real thoughts. I became an unbaptized publisher and was happy for a bit, but the Scrupulosity came back with a vengeance. And for a few years straight I was feeling constant stress and guilt all the time, and I had just wished that God would just kill me or that I get hit by a car or something. I wanted to tell someone so badly but I was afraid, but then after some goading from my Dad I decided to talk to the elders and I even told my parents as well. Since then I have felt better, I still get negative thoughts about it, and I still wonder if I am worthy enough to survive Armageddon. But I try to recognize that, and I try not to beat myself up too much.
JW Advisor: Again, you are not alone. I had lifelong depression until 2012. In 2010 I sought psychological help, as I had trauma that the elders were not equipped for, and as I worked to turn around with Jehovah's help, using the Scriptures to make sure I did not fall prey to the flighty theories of psychologists, I recovered. We all need to lean upon a support system that will help free us from the past and move on to the future.
We tend to judge ourselves far worse than Jehovah does. It helps to remember all those whom God has judged in the past. At the flood, those people had grown to believe Satan's lie that God would do nothing bad, but they did not doubt God's existence because most were only one contemporary generation removed from Adam, heard Enoch's preaching, and the story of Creation. No doubt many others were simply complacent and unconcerned. (Ge 6:1-6, 11, 12) At Sodom and Gomorrah, those who were not depraved were unwilling to protect the innocent. And, of course, Lot's sons-in-law did not believe and his wife loved the system of things more than Jehovah. (Ge 19:1-26) Saul was judged for his consistent and blatant disobedience and presumptuous disregard of Jehovah's channel. (1Sa 13:1-14) The Amorites were judged for opposing God's people. (1Sa 15:2, 3; 1Sa 15:28, 29) Uzzah was judged for his presumptuous and faithless act toward Jehovah's throne. (2Sa 6:6, 7) Nineveh was judged for its bloodthirsty practices. (Na 2:8-3:19) Israel and Judah were both judged for idolatry (Mic 1:6-9), excessive greed (Amos 6:1-14), depravity (2Ki 17:16-18) and for killing Jehovah's prophets. (Mt 23:37, 38)
All of these were judged, not for little sins, but for their brazen disobedience, as if Jehovah could not act. And you could go on to recount impatient idolaters (Ex 32:1-28), challengers of Jehovah's channel (Nu 16:1-35), complainers against Jehovah (Nu 21:4-9), thieves of things devoted to Jehovah (Jos 22:20; Acts 5:1-11), false prophets who lead people away from Jehovah (Jer 28: 15-17), killers of Jehovah's prophets (Mt 23:37), those who rebelliously believe what they want to believe about Jehovah against his word. (1Ki 13:1-26). In all these and others, it was Jehovah they willfully sinned against, not for lack of self-control, but for lack of faith. In all other things Jehovah is merciful as long as one puts faith in Jesus's ransom sacrifice and seeks Jehovah, meekness and righteousness.—Zph 2:3; Romans 3:21-23.
So remember these things when you feel unworthy because of minor sins. Jehovah is loving, patient and merciful, and he understands our weaknesses.—Psalm 103:1-22.
DoubtDoubts: I have been feeling better, I feel your responses did help me, and the way you talked about certainty was interesting and I hadn’t really thought about it that way, but it made sense. I am still not back to normal, definitely better and more stable. Last night I think I was having intrusive thoughts about what if we are a cult, but it didn’t debilitate me like it had and I felt a lot better after getting some sleep. So I really do appreciate the advice!
JW Advisor: It takes practice and maintenance to keep remembering these things. Revisit these things frequently in your mind so that you can build up a wall against such intrusive thoughts.
The term "cult" is highly subjective. To Trinitarians, it means anyone who does not believe Jesus is God and is interchangeable with "sect", though they have grown to avoid the term "antichrist", I suspect because it tends to backfire. To so-called anti-cult specialists it means whatever it means to the people that pay them their exorbitant fees. "Cult" is merely used as a boogeyman term. To agnostic or atheist non-psychologists it means any religion the media dubs a cult or else means any religion that expects their members to be devoted to their precepts against social norms. Though most people cannot define a cult when asked (I have never gotten an answer from anyone I asked in person). I will be establishing these viewpoints and debunking most cult identifiers at the revamped Dismythed website. I recommend reading those as they come out. JW's will not be the only religion to benefit from those posts because my goal is that the posts will be completely neutral, focussed only on the facts.
DoubtDoubts: Thank you for listening/ helpful advice. Talking openly like this feels therapeutic (I haven’t seen a therapist, and my [dad?] says to be weary that they plant doubts; and honestly it is a last resort type thing anyway). And this experience has made me learn that hiding and denying issues solves nothing, and instead just blows up in your face. I am hoping that talking to you guys about my doubts can strengthen my faith, instead of making it weaker by not talking about it.
JW Advisor: We'll be here whenever you need.
That is a fine lesson to learn. Be sure to take it to heart so that you can remember it every time indecisiveness comes around. Make the decision and stick to it. As with anything, it gets easier with practice.
DoubtDoubts: You answered everything nicely and well, I wanted to say THANK YOU; you guys helped me out!
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