Hello, I was just curious as to your thoughts on the growing number of people spreading the lies about JWs. [. . .] I myself have tried to help people [on Youtube] to understand the belief but it appears they tend to pay more attention to the myths as apposed to actual truth. [(Mostly just to point out to those who could be mislead by those apostates. I try not to say anything to other people on their channels but I have gotten caught up in some arguments online with folks in the past. Only assuming they could just be misguided sheep perhaps part of Christendom or otherwise. I generally keep to myself, I do find it difficult tho, not to speak up when I hear people making accusations or posting mistruths online. So I almost feel compelled to say something on the matter.)]
I have used Elijah Daniel's blog as one of my main tools, but as usual most tend to discredit them cause they are biased, so I was also wondering if any other sites or individuals make unbiased arguments for the faith. I am a returning member of the orginization, was raised in the faith but fell out, now have had a reinvigerated spirit to learn and teach the truth. Been back for a little over a year now. Feels great, but cant seem to get over all the lies being spread. Always wanting to correct people or call people out even though I know how the bible feels on arguments. I have gotten caught up in some debates online, tends to get heated and I take the high road out of the situation.JW Advisor: First, their numbers are not as great as they seem. The great majority of former members simply get on with their lives. Our opposers are simply becoming more outspoken because of the increasing news coverage. The reality is that all they do is parrot the statements of those who came before them. None of them give any real thought to the information from an unbiased perspective. They left because they have a complaining spirit and lack any sense of loyalty. (Jude 16-21)
However, we should never get into discussions with them. It is a disfellowshiping matter to unrepentantly talk to disfellowshiped or disassociated individuals. (2 John 8-11) They want you to get into debates with them so that they can wear down your faith and your loyalty and spread their complaining spirit to others just like gangrene; but we must reject such debates if we wish to stay loyal. (2 Timothy 2:16-19) Can bread remain free of corruption while in contact with corrupted bread? (1 Corinthians 5:6-8)
Instead, we must let the dead bury their dead. (Luke 9:60) Our ministry is not to the self-righteous not seeking treatment, but to those lowly in spirit seeking a physician. (Matthew 5:6; 9:11-13; Romans 3:23; Ephesians 2:1) My site is for disseminating the truth about these matters without debate so that some may be snatched from the fire. (Jude 22-23) Besides, deleting comments from our opposers without answering them turns out to be pretty cathartic.
I am not comfortable talking about other bloggers, except Elijah Daniels. Many either are apostates themselves who think they're doing some kind of noble thing, or else post their debates with apostates on their site, or simply share their own ideas instead of sticking to the facts or upholding established doctrine. I consider them all persona non grata and refuse to allow links to their sites in comments.
I have only made an exception for a single person because the scholarly research is very helpful despite improper linking. I link to his posts in the posts about the 607 BCE date, the UN N.G.O. issue and our policies on Child Abuse. Though I will eventually replace the two articles he does that in with my own articles.
I hope this helps. [May 26, 2016 at 12:06 pm]
JW Advisor: I hear ya, DefendingFaith. But there is a saying by Winston Churchill: "You will never reach your destination if you stop and throw stones at every dog that barks." [June 26, 2016, 5:16 pm]
DefendingFaith wrote [May 26, 2016 at 12:45 pm]:
Thanks, yes this helps. I have already made some videos pertaining to these matters. Only for the sake of helping other discern, as you say pulling them out of the fire. I have had dealings with them, i have foolishly got into arguments but have since tried to steer clear of these things as i know they have ulterior motives or chips on their shoulders i suppose. Is there possibly alternative sites with the same objective as yours. I had mentioned Elijah Daniels as he has linked to a number of places such as yours for further info. Very great stuff you guys are doing here. I commend you for all the work you and the other brothers do. I'm sure this takes years to all get down packed and then put it up on a site for others to gain from.JW Advisor: There's only one thing that matters: absolute loyalty to Jehovah God, Jesus Christ and to the organization that has proven its humility and faithfulness in holy spirit.
I know of no others that maintain as high of standards as mine and Elijah's. (Though our standards differ in a few areas, higher in some and lower in others.) That is why he is the only one I trust. [May 26, 2016 at 6:17pm]
JW Advisor: I agree. They really aren't growing in number as much as they're simply getting louder and using the same lies that others use. The internet gives them the venue.
You can get over the lies if you continually reflect on why you believe we have the Truth. If you have doubts, do not ignore them as if they do not exist. Settle them. This is where personal study is truly beneficial, and blogs like these. The links above were a big help. It gave me the organization's actual teaching on the matter in depth, and I began to see that apostates really lie a TON on the organization.
There was a bad week for me last year. I was so down spiritually that I did not even prepare for the meeting. There was an unresolved issue as regard a facet of our belief system and it had me down. But I researched and read many articles on the WT library one evening for a couple of hours, and got the organization's view on it.
After that night, I was fine. That's my recommended path of getting over lies. Check our actual teachings. Its like studying real money to spot the counterfeit. You don't study counterfeit money to know real money.
I also hope this helps too. [May 26, 2016 at 12:48pm]
Here's just a small example that popped up in my mind when thinking, DefendingFaith. Apostates will repeatedly claim that the Governing Body wants "rock star treatment" since the introductions of JW broadcasting. Do they? Well, if we just take what they say without thinking about it, we will believe that lie. But what comes to the mind of thinking Witnesses is how the GB have reduced their own roles on the station -- appearing every other month with a helper taking the lead in the month between.
Also, the article "Love does not behave Indecently" from the January 2016 WT clearly states concerning the GB and other well-known brothers:
"Second, realize that while it is good to respect these brothers and their wives, we would not want to treat them as celebrities".
https://www.jw.org/en/publications/magazines/watchtower-simplified-january-2016/we-want-to-go-with-you/
That's how you deal with lies. Just check our views on the matter. [May 26, 2016, 4:53pm]
Sometimes, I look at apostates as a husband that divorces his wife, yet, he claims to have moved on but continues to stalk her and make up lies about her.
In the same vein, they "divorce" themselves from the organization, yet they read every publication that we print, every video we make, every JW broadcast episode we release, and make up lies about what we were saying in those things.
Anyone would look at them as crazy if they were doing that to an ex wife. But they got a new term for it, called "activism".
Imagine a man, standing outside the front of his ex-wife's home trying to convince her new husband that he is being "deceived" by holding up picket signs. Is that "activism" or craziness? [May 27, 2016, 12:18pm]
JW Advisor: Completely nutters. Apostates themselves are the reason I find apostasy repulsive. I would have avoided apostasy to begin with due to my strong sense of loyalty, like avoiding extramarital sex out of loyalty, but when the one trying to tempt you to fornicate is a diseased, shriveled crank-addicted transvestite with scraggly hair, a beard, cusses like a sailor, smokes like a chimney, and talks like Harvey Fierstein, it's pretty easy not to be tempted unless you're one yourself. That's how repulsed I am by apostates. [May 27, 2016 at 2:49]
JW Advisor: One more thing I wanted to point out about how "loud" opposers are is that they over-sell the negative things that go on in the organization with their daily accusations. This is simply designed to discourage us under the false notion that God's true organization would not have problems, or would never get anything wrong. I do not know where they got that from other than their own imaginations.
This is not surprising, as Revelation 12:10 says Satan is the accuser of our brothers "day and night" before God. [May 30, 2016 at 8:02pm]
DefendingFaith wrote [June 20, 2016 at 1:52pm]:
Yeah, I see the overall point. Its just as Satan wants it to be, he has his hands in every facet of life. We as either studies or full time ministers must be as pro active as possible at dismantling and setting things straight. All they want to do is slander Gods holy name and the people who serve him.
[. . .] So if I were to make a response to some of these lies and rhetoric thrown about online. What should be my way of presenting it. Should I bullet point topics commonly misinterpreted or just go out and call all the channels and websites out for what they say. Id rather not stir the pot on these subjects but rather use tact and just point out the flaws in reasoning and so on. I just need a little direction in the best ways to do this.
Like what should I reference if they want unbiased sources of info, since they tend to think they are a cult and the information is controlled and all that. Not sure how to effectively go at that one. Most of the sources iv found are of the JW faith, which is fine but just in case that don't fly, id like to have a stacked deck to combat that issue.
I'm sure this wont really get through to many of those individuals, I would rather cut off the attempts made to distort or misguide other people from the truth. That is really my main goal in the first place. Helping others discern since they don't have that ability as of yet.JW Advisor: I'm going to reiterate what I stated in response to your very first query: We should never get into discussions with them. [Period] They are not seeking to learn from you. They are not curious about the Bible. Their cup is already full and you can't empty it for them to refill it. Leave them alone and walk away. Who cares if they think you're copping out? We shouldn't care what they think at all. They have already made up their minds. It's not up to us to change them.
If someone wants to argue about doctrine, policy or anything else, just leave them be. There is no good approach to such discussions at all. Nothing good can come of it. Anything you say is simply throwing pearls before swine. As Jesus said:
"Into whatever city or village you enter, search out who in it is deserving, and stay there until you leave. When you enter the house, greet the household. If the house is deserving, let the peace you wish it come upon it; but if it is not deserving, let the peace from you return upon you. Wherever anyone does not receive you or listen to your words, on going out of that house or that city, shake the dust off your feet. Truly I say to you, it will be more endurable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrah on Judgment Day than for that city." (Matthew 10:11-15)
If a student has questions, you will have plenty of time to answer them, but anyone that wants to argue only wants to either hold you up from going door to door or to convert you.
As for online, you should not be posting on sites of our apostates and opposers. Whether you read them is a conscience matter, but to post on their sites is to bring dishonor to Jehovah. Jesus did not go chasing after the Pharisees, but the Pharisees went chasing after him.
As to making a website to defend our beliefs, or the organization's decisions, as I have done at Opposers Dismythed, it requires deep research, careful reasoning and simply putting those things in writing, but not posting anything that appears weak or lacking careful thought. Also, every article requires stating what apostates say on the subject as a matter of course in order to be addressed, but we should not directly quote any statement made by an apostate, nor post transcripts of debates. The audience does not need anything more than an accurate depiction of the facts. The more they are exposed to lies, the more likely they are to get to believing those lies. Also, try to get each point across with as few words as possible. Our apostates tend to be insufferable bores who love to hear themselves talk. So inversely, truth-seekers should be people of few words who humbly say only what needs to be said. [June 22, 2016 at 3:01pm]
JW Advisor: I completely agree. They are not seekers of truth, and that's why they're apostates to begin with, so reasoning with them is out of the question.
Some may reason that if we have the truth and are confident in it, then reading and interacting with them should pose no harm to us. I like the illustration used by the organization that if you instill strong morals into your children, would you then deliberately expose them to pornography? After all, they should resist if their morals are strong enough, right? The fact is, you protect against harmful influences by identifying them and avoiding them, not by exposing yourself to them.
This is the faulty reasoning used to lure our brothers into poisoning their own minds. If you have the truth, then what are you afraid of?
My answer is that I am afraid of believing lies.
I say that because its not that the organization is hiding something from us that they don't want us to know so they instruct us to avoid apostates. Part of the reason is that the organization has dealt with apostasy in the past, and they know that the goal is to lure you out of God's organization.
I can also understand the urge to defend the faith. Lies hurt, so I will be honest about that, and they can make one angry. But you can successfully defend against accusations because they are made out of ignorance, or misunderstanding/
Here is some information that I think will serve you well that can help you be aware of apostates tricks. The most often used trick is "appeals to emotion". Examples of this are: "your organization doesn't care about children", or "you deny 'life saving' medical care", and the most often used one, "you break up families".
The goal is to get you angry and to accept their statements as true based on that emotion, and since these statements trigger our inborn protective instincts, we are more prone to react by removing ourselves and others from that alleged harm, without considering whether or not the harm is real or imagined.
In your case, they want you to leave the organization, and they want non-witnesses to fear joining.
You can have better self-control when you have realized the trickery used, and the purpose of it. [July 29, 2016 at 5:58pm]
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